In this episode of ASPI’s special series ‘SBY’s tears: From managing crisis to managing process in Australia-Indonesia relations since the fall of Suharto’, Dr David Engel, Head of ASPI’s Indonesia Program and Hillary Mansour, former ASPI Research Intern, speak to Gary Quinlan AO, who was Ambassador to Indonesia from 2018 until 2021.

Their conversation explores developments in the Australia-Indonesia economic relationship, the development of Indonesia’s democracy and the relationship between religion and politics in the country. They also consider the impacts of climate change and Covid-19 on Indonesia and Australia’s use of soft power.